Social Change Diaries Season 2: Philanthropy Ana Marie Argilagos

Ana Marie Argilagos on Philanthropy By, For and About Latino Communities

Philanthropy is the way to really address problems that feel persistent and enduring, and that have no hope.”

About This Episode

There are an estimated 55 million Hispanic people in the United States, comprising over 17% of the population and Ana Marie Argilagos is working to usher in a new generation of philanthropy that is for, by, and about the Latino community. Looking to fill the gap unmet by institutional philanthropy, Ana talks candidly about what philanthropy looks like for Latinos and the exciting opportunities that lie ahead.

About

Ana Marie Argilagos joined Hispanics in Philanthropy (HIP) as their new President on January 1, 2018. She is guiding HIP with a bold vision: to usher in a new generation of philanthropy that is for, by, and about the Latino community.

Previously, Ana Marie was a senior advisor at the Ford Foundation as part of the Equitable Development team. Her work has focused on urban development strategies to reduce poverty, expand economic opportunity, and advance sustainability in cities and regions across the world. Before becoming a senior adviser at the foundation in 2014, she served as Deputy Chief of Staff and Deputy Assistant Secretary at the US Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). While there, she created the Office for International and Philanthropic Innovation (IPI) to deepen and scale collaboration between public and philanthropic sectors. The IPI model of sourcing innovation and leveraging partnerships from broad global networks is now being successfully replicated at other federal cabinet agencies and in cities across the US. Previous to rejoining HUD, she spent eight years as a senior program officer at the Annie E. Casey Foundation in Baltimore, where she spearheaded the foundation’s work in rural areas, indigenous communities, and the US-Mexico border region.

Until recently, Ana Marie was an adjunct professor of international urban planning at New York University’s Wagner School of Public Service. She has a successful track record working within both the public and the nonprofit sectors in a range of capacities—from educational programs manager at the National Association of Hispanic Journalists, to the director of the New Workplace for Women Project at the National Council of La Raza, to the deputy director of Ayuda, a community-based legal clinic serving immigrants in Washington, DC—and has proved herself to be an entrepreneurial thinker bridging diverse agendas and achieving results.

Ana Marie received her master’s degree in Public Administration from Harvard University and her Bachelor’s Degree in International Relations from American University.

In her words…

“Right now there’s a lot of really well-meaning work that’s happening, but we are not able to have long-term, sustainable work. When you’re just working with foundations, strategic plans change, funding interests change, lines of work change, theories of change are altered, and what I’m trying to figure out is how we develop other ways. HIP has been doing this for a while, through our funding collaborative and through our crowdfunding sites, where Latinos, who are such generous givers, are able to invest in their own community infrastructure and institutions.  And when I say ‘by our community, for our community, about our community,’  it’s taking that into consideration, if we’re able to harness just a fraction of the Latino community’s buying power, which is 1.4 trillion dollars, and we’re able to invest that into our communities, we can really start closing some of these inequality gaps impacting the community.”  “For me, philanthropy is much brighter than foundations. It’s giving and it’s getting, one person to another, with no expectation back. And, as such, it can be used as an instrument towards dismantling inequality, towards dismantling poverty and racism. And I think it’s a way to be audacious and take risks. Philanthropy is the way to really address problems that feel persistent and enduring, and that have no hope. If you look at the words of Nelson Mandela, he said, ‘It always seems impossible until it’s done.’ That’s how we can use philanthropy as a way to address issues that feel like they’re impossible and they’re daunting— we can get it done through philanthropy, by working together and by giving broadly.” “One of the things I’m doubling down on is leadership. I find that we’re all talking about diversity, equity and inclusion, intersectional, racial equity, these kind of things. I think that this needs to start at the top, and so one of the things I’m thinking about is how do we diversify trustees?  It has to start at the very top.  We have a fantastic network Latino CEOs, and I know from many years in philanthropy that there are also a good number of Latinos as Program Officers and Directors. But until we have enough CEOs, who are the ones that are providing the strategic direction and governance, we’re going to be hitting our heads against the ceiling. So I’m focusing on trustees, because it’s frustrating that we have such view.  I think it’s between 2% and 3% is the last report that I saw.  And that’s not acceptable. The gap is too large.”

Questions Answered on this Episode

How do you define philanthropy? The Hispanic and Latino population represents the second largest ethnic group in the country. As we think about philanthropy, what is the potential impact on creating sustainable change for this growing group? Today, do you think there are enough resources allocated to address the needs of it? There are a lot of conversations taking place now about the census. Are there any connections between philanthropy and the census that we need to be thinking about? What do you find most frustrating in philanthropy? How do we develop more leaders of color in the nonprofit sector? What impact has the current political climate had on your work? The model for philanthropy looks different for different communities. What does philanthropy typically look like in Hispanic communities? What is your vision for the HIP? You’ve been in your role for less than six months, what have you learned so far? How do we create more opportunities for people of color in philanthropy?

Transcript

Vanessa

Well I am excited to welcome Ana Marie Argilagos to our show from Hispanics in Philanthropy.  As everyone knows, this season we’ve been speaking with different leaders in the philanthropy sector, and just trying to get a sense of what everybody’s thinking about what the concerns are, what the issues are, what their vision is, short term and long term.  So I’m really excited to hear Ana’s perspective.  So, thank you for joining us. 

Ana

It’s a pleasure to be here.  Thank you for inviting me.

Vanessa

Perfect.  So, I guess my first question – I’ve been asking this to everyone who’s been on for the season.  Can you share your definition of philanthropy? 

Ana

Sure.  I’d love to.  If you study etymology, you’ll know that philanthropy actually is much broader than the way that we tend to use it here.  It means “love of humanity.”  So for me, philanthropy is much brighter than foundations.  It’s giving and it’s getting, one person to another, with no expectation back.  And, as such, it can be used as an instrument – as an instrument toward dismantling inequality, toward, dismantling poverty, racism.  And I think it’s a way to be audacious and take risks.  And I just always think about, in my job, that philanthropy is the way to really address problems that feel persistent and enduring, and that have no hope.  But if you look at the words of Nelson Mandela, he always said, “It always seems impossible until it’s done,”  and that’s how we can use philanthropy as a way to really address issues that feel like they’re impossible and they’re daunting, but we can get it done through philanthropies by working together and by giving broadly. 

Vanessa

Well, thank you for that definition.  I have to say there is a bit of fire in your voice, which is exciting, which makes me think about someone who is new to an organization, as you are to Hispanics in Philanthropy, and that excitement and desire to make an impact or maybe think about ways that the organization can engage in different ways.  And so, as a new leader of the organization, you started there and took over in January.  What is your vision for the organization – connected to the definition that you just provided? 

Ana

Sure.  And yeah, I think there is fire in my belly.  You’ll notice that it’s not just a job.  For me this is a life passion, and everything I’ve done really throughout my life has built to this.  So I’ve been in my role for less than three months.  I’ve been on the listening tour for much of the year, from communities in which we’re working.  And it’s not just foundation and community and nonprofit leaders.  We’re talking to givers that are participating in giving circles, to community and business leaders, about the faces that are affecting the Latino community and how it can provide a way to promote a new wave of philanthropy that does promote a more equitable future.  My vision is that we can steward and help spearhead this new era of philanthropy, and that’s one that is by our community, for community, and about our community.  So, that way we’re independent, we’re sovereign, and we have control over our institutions and the future of the community. 

I think right now there’s a lot of really well-meaning work that’s happening, but we are not able to have long-term, sustainable work.  Because when you’re just working with foundations, strategic plans change, funding interests change, lines of work change, theories of change, change, and what I’m trying to figure out is how we develop other ways and HIP has been doing this for a while, through our funding collaborative and through our crowdfunding sites, where givers, Latinos who are such generous givers, are able to invest in their own community infrastructure and institutions.  And when I say “by our community, for our community, about our community,”  it’s taking that into consideration.  It’s taking into consideration that, if we’re able to harness just a fraction of the Latino communities buying power, which is 1.4 trillion dollars, if we take just a fraction of that money and we’re able to invest that into investments in our community, we can start really closing some of these inequality gaps are impacting the community. 

Vanessa

So, you’re – two things. 

Ana

That’s a mouthful.  I know.

Vanessa

No.  That’s great.  Two things came to mind as you were speaking.  The first is around the model for philanthropy in Hispanic communities.  So, just based on information and research I’ve done, I’ve noticed that there is a different approach to philanthropy based on ethnicity.  Can you share with me a little bit about maybe historically what philanthropy looked like in Hispanic communities, and if there is an opportunity to uplevel that in any way, or if there’s an opportunity to change it so that there are sustainable giving opportunities?  What is your feel about the way philanthropy was done, because contrary to what a lot of conversations say, we know that all communities have always had – particularly of color – have always had philanthropy woven into the fabric of just how they took care of their communities and neighbors, etc.  So, I’d love to talk a little bit about what that looks like in the Hispanic – what it has looked like in the Hispanic community – and ways to maybe make that bigger with the growing population of Hispanics in the country. 

Ana

Thank you.  I’m so happy you frame it that way, because my first day on the job, my very first interview, the interviewer said, “But Hispanics, Latinos, don’t have a culture of giving, don’t have a culture of generosity.”  Why is there Hispanics in philanthropy?  It doesn’t make sense.  And I went home that night and I like reframed [unclear] what we’ve been working on, and narrative changes a lot of that.  And it was really frustrating to me, because I feel – and the information research proves this out – that Latinos are very generous and are generous in so many ways, and it’s not a new thing, it’s an old thing. 

They’ve been giving in lots of ways, and it just looks and feels different than from other communities, because it doesn’t necessarily happen with an expectation of a tax-deduction slip that you can then use you know for your taxes, which is how that system works here in this country.  But giving is happening.  We have a proliferation of giving circles.  There’s Latino community foundations that are springing up in California, in Denver, in Georgia.  The HIP’s funders collaborative gave out over fifty million dollars, which was leveraging individual giving with foundation giving.  We have the HIPGive crowdfunding site, which is raising a lot of monies.  And this is by entrepreneurs and people like you, like me, my daughter, my mom, they’re giving money. 

If you look at remittances, if you see the muscularity and the grit that came out of the Diasporas community in the aftermath of the earthquakes in Mexico that happened this past fall, and of course Hurricane Maria, hurricane Irma, the Napa fires.  There was a lot of giving.  The remittances so that giving is happening.  We just need to – I think it’s one of the HIP’s jobs to identify it, so that then it can be measure and it could be visible, so that it’s clear that it’s not a committee that’s taking.  It’s a community that’s giving back. 

So that’s been frustrating, but there’s more and more Latinos that are businesspeople that becoming active as philanthropist we’re – at HIP, we’re going to be starting a fund to allow for these funds to be aggregated, so that there’s a place that people trust where they can put their resources, and they know that it’s going into the issues that they care about.  The community is very relational.  I think that there have been studies that have been done in the past that show that Latinos often prefer to give directly to people in need, because of a lack of trust in institutions and in hierarchies.  And so that’s why I think things like giving circles are very popular, because you can actually see where your money is going, and that’s a that’s very important. 

Vanessa

It’s frustrating for me, as someone who works primarily with nonprofits, and I have a first-hand account of what kinds of organizations are getting money and what’s getting funded and who’s doing really great work but can’t catch a break.  And I’m really hopeful about what you just shared, because I think that this does give an opportunity for us to decentralize, in some ways, that the control around legacy institutions, who sort of give to their same old, same old.  So we know that white men are controlling our traditional philanthropy models, and so having an opportunity for people of color for HIP to bring people together to collaborate.  And then also what you said, which is so beautiful to me, about the care part of it.  So philanthropy, the way we look at it in this country, is like, “I’m going to donate this money.  There’s a tax break.  Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.”  And not everybody does it for the tax break.  There are a lot of people who are genuinely generous and wanting to help. 

But this idea of wanting to help my neighbor or having that, as you mentioned, that relationship, and so it means something different to you.  To me, that’s how we create sustainable change, so I’m incredibly excited about what you just shared and I feel like this could be the way that philanthropy really does change the world, if people are engaged in that relationship.  I’m so yay.  That was a little side note. 

Ana

Good.  It’s a two pronged approach, and so if we’re able to raise resources from the community people investing in their institutions, putting faith in their institutions, it’s not just quantifiable in terms of money, but the influence that that could have.  I think it has a lot of legs.  And also it could help, because then you can go to philanthropy and say, “This is where the community is putting its dollars.  And it’s information.  It’s data.  Because these funds won’t work if people don’t put their money behind them, right?  We raise at HIP over $650,000 for Puerto Rico, in terms of their recovery.  And that was 750 individuals that donated that money, but it shows us where people want to put their monies.  And so, people can walk there or walk away, right?

Vanessa

Right.  Yeah, I think there’s some opportunities there.  So, what do you find most frustrating in philanthropy?  What kind of things do you feel hold us back from really progressing in how we’re using philanthropy?

Ana

One of the things I’m doubling down on is leadership.  And I find that we’re all talking about diversity, equity and inclusion, intersectional, racial equity, these kind of things.  I think that this needs to start at the top, and so one of the things I’m going to start thinking about, and has already started conversations is how do we diversify trustees?  Because it has to start at the very top.  So we have a fantastic network Latino CEOs, and I know from many years in philanthropy that there’s also a good number of Latinos as program officers and directors, but until we have enough CEOs that are the ones that are providing the strategic direction and governance, we’re going to be hitting our heads against the ceiling.  So I’m focusing on trustees, because it’s frustrating that we have such view.  I think it’s between 2% and 3% is the last report that I saw.  And that’s not acceptable if you have – at last count we had 18% in terms of numbers.  The gap is too large. 

So, working on trustees and working on – we also have a mid-career program over at HIP with our engine leaders, and that’s because many of us go into philanthropy not directly out of school but as our second careers or even third careers.  And we have an amazing organization, EPIP, emerging for emerging professionals in philanthropy.  But we need folks to be able to go into philanthropy already prepared, sort of like philanthropy ready.  So you have to be board ready, you have to be philanthropy ready, and what are the tools, where is the networks.  So how can we complement what EPIP is doing at that level as well?

It’s frustrating that there’s not enough people.

Vanessa

What can we do – and I’m sure this is sort of part of what you just stated – but how can we also get more women involved in philanthropy?  So, in the nonprofit sector, the data shows that it’s comprised of more than – the workforce is comprised by women by 70%, and I know that in the philanthropy world, it’s similar.  The numbers are very high for women, but are we – are there?

Ana

At the mid level, right?

Vanessa

Yes.

Ana

But not at the [unclear] of your level.

Vanessa

Correct.  Yes.  At the mid and lower level.

Ana

Exactly.

Vanessa

What do we do?  How do we prepare women?  I was having a conversation with someone and he said – he’s a Native American and he has been many times the only person of color at the table, and so some of his conversations with others have been they’ve been frustrated to be the only person of color at the table, the only woman of color at the table, and not being able to make any real change.  And so they’ve gotten so frustrated that they just left the sector and decided to do something else.  So, in addition to knowing that we need this, we’re also sort of reducing the opportunity to have people of color in there, if they don’t feel like they can make any impact.  So I think it is, as you mentioned, diversity and inclusion, and definitely the equity piece – making sure that people have an opportunity to do good work.  How do how do we ensure that beyond the halls of organizations like HIP where we know that you’re focused on this?  Is there any way?  Are there any opportunities for us to broaden just across all of philanthropy the way we’re approaching getting more people of color into the pipeline?

Ana

I think that we have to say that having one is not an acceptable.  That we feel like a token, and we have to do that at the outset.  When I went to work for one foundation, I said, “It’s not acceptable that you only have two in a foundation of this size.  It’s not acceptable that you don’t have any funding that’s happening in communities in, you know, in Latino communities, and your national foundation.”  I think that to a certain extent, we have to be willing to take risks and we have to call it out at the very beginning.  I have a friend who says, “Okay, I’ll join your board, but I won’t do it – and I’m clear that I’m the only one and that you have to start somewhere.  But I won’t be the only one for – if I’m still the only one in two years, I’m leaving.  This is the just sort of putting your observations there on the front end.”

Vanessa

Mm-hmm.

Ana

And coming in very clear that it’s not acceptable at the very front end, whether you’re coming in as a trustee, as an advisor or as an employee, it’s not acceptable.  And that way, you know if there’s an intention to really do better or if the intention is just to be able to do, “Check mark.  We got the box.  We can go on.”  So I think that we have to put ourselves at risk and do that.  When I’ve done that myself and when I’ve seen people do that, it’s risky.  Sometimes you’re told, “Okay, no thank you,”  but you know that that’s a dead end/

Vanessa

Right.

Ana

You’re getting that information earlier.  And sometimes, if there was real intention, then you know that you have it on record.  But I think that this work, more and more foundation leaders, as I’ve been talking to them through my listening tour in the past three months, they are understanding that they have to do this work internally, from the highest levels through all levels first.  And they have to do that work well, it can’t be cursory, to be able to do this work well externally.  You can make smart investments externally for a while as a funder, but it will catch up to you.  You’re not going to have, you know, it’s not going to be able to be deep, and you’ll only have a window for so long before it’ll catch up to you and people will start calling it out, if you don’t do this work internally. 

Vanessa

So let’s shift gears a little bit and let’s talk politics.  What is the impact of the current political climate had on your work at HIP?

Ana

Oh, it’s such a moment of uncertainty, and it’s not just uncertainty here in the US, and the Latino community.  I feel like it’s uncertainty globally and there’s anguish, and it goes up and it goes down.  Just yesterday we had the judge who made a decision around DACA.  I was so pleased, but then, you know, then you had things that are just horrible happening.  The next day it feels – it just feels like shock and awe – and we’re always, it puts us in a responding situation with no end in sight, whether it’s immigration or healthcare or natural disasters.  It feels like the resiliency of our community is being tested, and so we have to stand stronger together.  We do this by channeling, As I told you, our town our culture of generosity and our cultural creativity and entrepreneurship, that doesn’t feel like it’s enough anymore, and that’s what’s scary. 

Right now, what’s on my mind – I hope it’s on your mind, too – is the census.  I’ve worked in several censuses, and this one faces unprecedented challenges, unprecedented.  And we thought we were having difficult times before.  Since this is so important, it’s not – I guess you were asking about political and I guess census is not political – but it’s about being counted.

Vanessa

Oh yeah, I think census for me – census is very political.  And I think census is also very misunderstood, so yes. 

Ana

It’s so that people can have agencies..  So to me, I guess, in a way it’s political, but in another way it’s about dignity and respect, because it’s about each person counts.

Vanessa

Right. 

Ana

And so that’s dignity and respect, which is why I’m like, “Hmm, is it a political or not?”  And no matter what political party, people should agree that everybody should be counted.  And so this – it was not good from the start, given that the census is not being tested, you know, in the way it should be.  It’s going to be [all going/ongoing] online, which is something we’ve never done before.  They dismantled the two-part question, which was not ideal.  But then most recently, an announcement about adding a citizenship question.  That’s unprecedented, and that’s an assault on all communities of color, not just Latinos.  It’s an attempt, I think, outright, to depress the country’s really counting our immigrant communities and to that distrust that I talked about earlier, that really does increase the distrust.  I’m excited because I see pockets of funders and foundations coming together, understanding that they don’t only fund projects, understanding that they have to fund communities, that they have to fund a power and voice, and seeing that they have an obligation to take action, so that every person in this country, in every community, regardless of race or ethnicity, that every person is counted in our 2020 census.  And so I’m really pleased that we’re able to join forces with these other communities, with organizations like NALEO, the National Association of Latino Elected Officials, Funders Community for Civic Participation is also really active.  The Bauman foundation is also very, very active.  So, we are coming together. 

Vanessa

That’s great.  What about taxes?  So we know that there was major changes to tax deductions and around contributions to charitable organizations.  Do you see any impact on donations that are coming in to HIP and some of your other partners connected to that?  Do you think that it would reduce the amount of money that people are donating?

Ana

I surely hope not.  I’m worried about community foundations, because I think it reflects on them very much.  I’m more worried about the stock market and endowment and how that goes up and down, not necessarily more worried, I’m equally worried about that, and how that’s going to affect the future, and nobody knows.  Taxes for Latinos, as I told you, we o much of our giving happens outside of the space of tax deductions that a lot of the individual giving through giving circles and disaster remittances, helping out your neighbors, contributing to your church, to your local school.  So we will see how that plays out. 

Vanessa

Ok.  So, you’re less than three months in the job, and I’m imagining a long, illustrious career there.  Let’s look ahead to 2020, two years from now.  What changes do you hope to see, and where do you see HIP in two years? 

Ana

I’m brand new, as you said, and I’m following a president that was there for 27, 28 years.  The organization’s 35 years.  So, my first year, what I’m doing and it’s why I embarked on a listening tour, is to really build the next generation of what this institution organization network is going to be, and how it is relevant to every single person across the country, and how we’re able to build it and feed it and make sure that it has influence and power.  And so, that takes talking to a lot of people and absorbing what it is that the community wants, because I don’t see myself as – I mean, I am the leader by being president and CEO, but I feel more like an architect that’s listening to her clients.  And what do the clients want this house to include?  So, I’m thinking about what kind of strategies, approaches, tools to people want.  And I’m clear that it’s in going to include, that’s not just philanthropic, attention to foundations that have been the bread and butter of how HIP was funded, first founded. 

It started because there were three Latinos that were working in philanthropy and felt very lonely and needed support.  So it’s been throughout its first generation really an institution that was a network of foundation employees, trustees, CEOs, helping to strengthen each other and support each other.  It quickly pivoted to an organization that understood that need was to increase resources to Latino-led, Latino-serving organizations, especially grassroots organizations that usually don’t get resources – are not able to attract resources – from foundations.  And I think now what we’re – and I should add that we’ve granted over fifty million dollars as a grant maker in the past twelve years. 

So, the next iteration I think is continuing this organization.  A network actually, you know, absolutely is only as powerful as its network and its voice and its members.  And so, how do we develop continued developing this work so that everybody can be a philanthropist?  And that’s, you know, so that would leverage and complement the foundation funding that happens. 

Vanessa

In your listening tour, have you heard anything that you weren’t expecting? 

Ana

That’s an interesting.  I have heard appetite for us to continue speaking truth to power in terms of philanthropy.  So, I thought that after 35 years, HIP could start moving away from doing reports every couple of years about, “Oh, the lack of Latinos in philanthropy, the lack of philanthropic funding for Latino issues,”  and it seemed like that more reports every five years or every three years talking about, “You know, there’s a dearth, that that’s done.  But people want us to continue that.  People want us to continue naming the numbers, even though they don’t change.  And that’s why I was a little bit bored with these reports, because they say the same thing every three or five years.  I was like, “Why am I going to do another report, you know, for the same?”  But people want us to continue doing these reports.  They feel that it’s important. 

So, that was a surprise because, you know, the definition of a crazy person is when you continue to do things over and over.  But it’s clear that there’s an appetite for that, and, if we don’t do it, who else will?  So, having a place where there’s a voice that is bringing the sector toward accountability.  I hear that every pretty much every visit that I do. 

Vanessa

Okay.  If you were speaking to a room full of young people that were interested in becoming leaders in philanthropy, but they’re at the very early stages of their career, what advice would you give them?

Ana

I would tell to sign up for HIP’s mid-career [entrance] fellowship to become a member of HIP.  Even if they don’t feel like they have time right now to apply for the fellowship, I think just read everything you can and get involved, go to your local community foundation.  We’re going to start – also getting circles started across the country.  That’s one of the things that I think is low-hanging fruit.  And I’ve been visiting and we do that when we can with community foundations.  But when we can’t, I just, immediately before talking to you, I was talking to a guy from Michigan that wants to get together a dozen of his friends and start a giving circle. 

So there’s lots of things that we can do, even if we’re early in our careers, but you can sign over for the HIP [unclear] with Listserv.  You can sign up for our leaders project.  You can become a member.  And just start lending your voice.  The more we grow the network we can then say that people are paying attention, and, as part of our network, we’re always like putting out petitions or questions and surveys and things that we get to hear from you, and we were able to then evolve or pivot as needed. 

Vanessa

And if people are looking for more information about where you’re going to be next on the listening tour or just updates, I know you said just join Listserv, is there anything, any call to action, that you want to direct people to? 

Ana

We just finished our conference, and so this summer, what we’re going to be doing is having – I’ll continue the listening tour – and we’re going to be having strategy and planning.  So I would say just shoot us an email, call the office, and let us know that you’d like to host us.  If not me, we have you know a couple of other staff that are also traveling, getting a sense as to what people want, because we do want to pull in the needs and wants and aspirations of the community early on while we’re developing the HIP 2.0.  So, we’d love to visit.  I’ve been I’ve gone to about 21 cities so far.  I have another 22 on my listening tour that I’m going to do before the end of the summer.  So yep, I’m pretty much covering everyone, from Puerto Rico to Mexico to California to Seattle to Miami, Philly.  I mean, I’m just going everywhere.  Next week I’m going to New Orleans.  The following week I’m going to California.  Last week I was in Georgia, Baltimore.  I’m trying.  So, do you want to host me.  Sure.  Call.

Vanessa

I love it.  I love it.  I love it.  Well, this was an absolute pleasure.  I thank you for your time.  I’m excited to see all of what you are doing and please know that you have a resource here.  If I can help with anything, do not hesitate to ask.  I’m wishing you all the best. 

Vanessa

Fabulous.  It’s so much fun to talk to you.  I really appreciate it.  And yeah, check back with me next year, and we can talk about what we’ve learned and what we’re doing. 

Vanessa

That sounds fantastic.